Full transcript between Leah Thomas and our Authors on Climate Words host and Climate Books coordinator, Rebecca Gerny.

This conversation was recorded on June 7, 2024.

Rebecca Gerny: Hello and welcome to Authors on Climate Words. I'm joined today by Leah Thomas, an intersectional environmental activist and eco communicator. She is the founder of the nonprofit Intersectional Environmentalist and author of the book, which we'll be chatting about today, The Intersectional Environmentalist: How to Dismantle Systems of Oppression and Protect People and Planet. Thanks so much for joining me, Leah.

Leah Thomas: Thanks for having me.

Rebecca: So first, I'd like to invite you to introduce yourself in your own words and add anything I missed in that introduction.

Leah: I'm Leah Thomas. I'm a Midwesterner that's living in California. I say that because I think the Midwest has a lot to do with why I care about the Earth so much — summers running around outside. I got my start studying environmental science and policy, and then transitioned into corporate sustainability at companies like Patagonia before leaving during 2020 to kind of do my own thing and start my own blog, Green Girl Leah, and also the nonprofit Intersectional Environmentalist. And through that experience, I had the extreme privilege of being able to write my first book, The Intersectional Environmentalist.

I started working on it when I was 25, which is so wild to me as I approach my 30s. I just really can't shut up about sustainability. So whether it's music sustainability, climate justice, lifestyle, more political stuff, I just wanna talk about it.

Rebecca: Great, well, that's what we're here to do. I think to dig in before we get kind of into intersectional environmentalism, I'd love to start with that term, environmental justice, and it's kind of evil twin, environmental injustice. In the book, you write that environmental justice is defined by the EPA as “the fair treatment and meaningful involvement of all people, regardless of race, color, national origin, or income, with respect to the development, implementation, and enforcement of environmental laws, regulations, and policies.”

That's obviously a super wordy government definition. I'm wondering if you could describe the relationship between climate and social justice and if there's maybe an example to illustrate this relationship for our listeners.

Leah: Absolutely. So this is really US focused, but the Environmental Justice movement, as we know it, did begin in the United States in large part because of the Black American population as they were going through the civil rights movement, they were also understanding that workers' rights and workers' safety, housing discrimination, those were all things that were a part of social justice. And when it came to worker safety, they started to examine how many pollutants they were being exposed to and hazards that they were being exposed to. And with conversations about housing discrimination and redlining, they were also having conversations of, ‘okay, it's not just that we're being told that we can only rent or buy homes in these areas.’ These areas have more landfills, more highways, more toxic waste dumps and just weird smells and energy. So that's how environmental justice as a field was developed because there were researchers like Dr. Robert Bullard, or people like Hazel M. Johnson in Chicago, that were identifying that there were more environmental pollutants and hazards and communities of color and low-income communities. So that's where that intersection of race and income and identity and social justice and environmentalism comes from.

When we ask the question, who is this injustice happening to? Instead of just asking the question, what is the environmental hazard? If we also ask the question, well, who is it happening to more? We'll get some pretty interesting answers. So that's essentially the field of environmental justice and what an environmental injustice is.

Rebecca: You mentioned some historical precedence to people in the field doing the work that you do and the role of people of color in the environmental justice movement. Are there others? Or could you share a little bit about the people you kind of see as your ancestors in the work that you're doing?

Leah: Yeah. So in the book, The Intersectional Environmentalist, I tried to position it as having a mother and father of environmental justice. But I also know things exist beyond a binary. But I think it was helpful because we didn't really get that in the environmental justice space. When we talk about, who helped the modern day environmental movement? We've got the Rachel Carson's, we've got, all the people who did all the things, the person who started the Sierra Club whose name skips my mind. A lot of non-POC that were a part of the conservation movement. So I wanted to be able to have those sorts of characters that people could look to.

So the two of them that I pointed out earlier, like Hazel M. Johnson and Dr. Robert Bullard, I think, are pillars to this movement. There's also the person who defined the terminology environmental racism. I don't know his name off the top of my head, but that was such a groundbreaking term and helped put things into context. And there's also people like Hazel M. Johnson. There's really so many, but a lot of them weren't even, some were environmental researchers and others were just everyday people that were looking at what they were experiencing around them in their communities and trying to get active.

The Black church in America actually played a really large role in the environmental justice movement. So it's interesting to look at some of these environmental justice convenings and then seeing like, this happened at a Baptist church? Like these people are just getting together at a church and talking about hazards, which I think is also a really cool part of the story.

Rebecca: Yeah, it really made me think about how people maybe didn't identify as environmentalists at the time or really recognize that that was their role. It was kind of just them observing and sharing about their lived experience. So I found that really interesting.

Obviously, also, we've been talking about environmental justice and social justice in terms of like from a US perspective. But in your book, you also share more broadly from a global perspective. Can you give us maybe a few examples or just share a little bit about how environmental injustice applies on a global scale?

Leah: Absolutely. So it really differs from place to place. There are some countries that might primarily have one demographic of people, one race of people, maybe multiple ethnicities, but a different situation than what we might see in the United States where there's kind of like clear racial lines and categories.

So in different instances, wealth or class could be the biggest determining factor of who's experiencing an environmental injustice. And I think that's important to note because it looks different everywhere that you go. And then there's also international environmental injustices or global injustices that happen when countries like the United States or the United Kingdom ship their clothing waste or excess technological waste to different countries and then are exposing people to increased pollution in addition to the exposure to electronics and the bad little metals that reside in our phones and things like that.

So those are just a couple examples of international environmental injustices and even bigger than that would be the fact that some of the countries that have contributed the least to the climate crisis or pollution in general, will be some of the first to experience the impacts of things like sea level rise or warming temperatures and might even be in countries that are no longer habitable for them because of that. So I would think that that's a grave environmental injustice because then they have to evacuate and deal with potential loss of culture and those sorts of things.

Rebecca: I think that that is always really relevant, because obviously on the U.S. scale, there's a lot of injustices and differences between experiences and communities. And that almost, in the same way that inequality is drastically different in terms of the U.S. and other countries, like the climate crisis is experienced drastically different as well.

Now, as kind of an antidote to the environmental injustice that we've been talking about, your book and your work has introduced the term intersectional environmentalism, which you define in the book as “an inclusive approach to environmentalism that advocates for both the protection of people and planet.” So could you share a little bit of your journey with this word? What was it about intersectionality that first appealed to you? And what is intersectional environmentalism really look like in practice?

Leah: Yeah, I think for anyone who might be listening, I just wanted to know if you have a thought that crosses your mind please write it down. I didn't have some profound moment, in my opinion, where I was like, intersectional environmentalism is born. I just was like I'm an intersectional feminist. I consider all these different aspects of my identity when it comes to feminism and feminism should be intersectional and if it's not then women of color get left behind, trans women get left behind, etc. etc. etc.

So I really just identified with intersectional theory, which for those who don't know kind of looks at identity overlaps. Me, for example, I'm like a black woman from the Midwest. What does my blackness have to do with my womanhood and how I'm experiencing the world around me?

So with environmentalism, I wanted to make sure people really considered the things that environmental justice as a field considers: race, income, sexuality, religion, geography, and what all those things have to do with how someone is experiencing the natural world around them. What they have access to in terms of green spaces, etc. And then what they don't have access to. So perhaps not having access to safe drinking water or green infrastructure and all those sorts of things. I think I came up with the term, it was during the summer of 2020. I think I'd actually written about it before and an article in the Good Trade and like nobody blinked an eye. So I was like, okay, yeah, cool. But when I talked about it during the George Floyd protests in 2020, when we saw for the first time everybody was trying to learn about anti-racism, and I just put it on Instagram of all places with a social media graphic that said, Environmentalists for Black Lives Matter. And I was like, if you think that this poster is real, like environmentalists for Black Lives Matter, if you wanna join, then you should also be an intersectional environmentalist. Here's the definition, here's a pledge. And that's really how that came together. And I'm sure other people have said the same terminology in other ways, but I think it was really almost like place-based because of the time and a lot of people were looking for language for the environmental community to use.

Rebecca: How has your journey with the term evolved or in general, how does it inform the way that you practice your activism or the way that you show up in the environmental movement?

Leah: I think it felt inherent. I feel like I always would look at it that way. So I have a sweet spot for Missouri in the Midwest because of where I was born. I definitely really care deeply about social justice and communities of color. So it felt almost inherent, but it also just felt like a nice term to be able to use. And I think the thing that has made me so excited about this was the reception to it. And a lot of people saying like, even people I really look up to in this field just being like, oh yeah, that's the terminology to explain what I've been experiencing. So their experiences are valid, but being able to name it in a way that a lot of people suddenly understood, I think that makes me really excited about it.

And I also never wanna be a gatekeeper. So my publisher might be like, ‘She's the first that's ever said this,' but I really don't wanna gatekeep anything like that or even with Intersectional Environmentalist as a platform. I want people to use that terminology so much so that eventually we don't have to use it at all. And an environmentalist can just inherently be intersectional.

I also find bits of humor and the whole thing because it's just so odd to me that Instagram is why I was able to write a book. It's still wild to me when colleges have courses on intersectional environmentalism. And I'm just like, what did I do? But I think I just gave some language to something that was already there and was already happening, which I feel really honored to play a small role in.

Rebecca: Yeah, we talk about that a lot in Climate Words. I like how you said that that was kind of inherent in your environmentalism. Oftentimes these things that we feel and we know we just don't have the words for. And so it is really important to be able to articulate clearly what a certain thing is or why it's important to remain intersectional. But I love that dream as well, that one day every environmentalist will be intersectional. And I think that the journey that you're on and the journey that your book has taken. I think recently it was like required reading for every freshman at UCLA. It slowly is becoming that. I mean, I remember in college, learning that like prison justice and abolition was an environmental issue. And so I think that more and more, as we start to talk about these things, it will become kind of basic at this point, which is awesome.

Rebecca: I also wanted to just touch on, are there any challenges, in terms of looking at things from an intersectional lens or things that we should pay attention to while we're focused on environmental justice.

Leah: Yeah, I think, so something that I've gotten a lot of feedback from people who are like, well, if I'm looking at everything at once, I can't focus on any issue in particular. And I think that is an interesting take because again, for me, intersectional environmentalism is inherent, so it's not really taking a whole lot of extra effort. Even if I'm thinking about a community outside of my own, it's just like, oh okay, and maybe that's just how I view the world around me. But I do want to take that feedback because I don't want people to feel overwhelmed as though we can't get drastic and much needed climate policy passed because we have to focus on all these other things.

But my rebuttal to that usually is, well, where are we now? Not taking an intersectional environmentalist approach. We have a whole climate crisis on our hands. So I don't want to hear that, including diverse voices and considering them will somehow derail the environmental movement. I think it's a beautiful addition to it.

So I think that's like feedback that I've gotten on the terminology, but I also want to let people know, and which is why I love you all's project so much is that there are so many other words, like, so many words that you can use. Like if you identify more with ecofeminism, go off, like intersectional environmentalism is an extension of some ecofeminist ideas. Or some people are like, no, I'm like an eco-Marxist, or I'm a communist that's an environmentalist. I'm like, whatever terminology that resonates with you, I think that's the beautiful thing about language. I want people to explore and get curious and cling on to what works for them.

Rebecca: Totally. I think that, like you said, the climate crisis in general is so diverse and has so many different issues that one can look at. It can be overwhelming, but I think in the same way that in the climate crisis, you have to kind of focus on one issue and dig in, like adding diverse voices is the same approach. What makes sense to you and what do you identify with? And that's the through line that you should follow. And being intersectional just allows you to see more and more complexity in the problem, which I appreciate.

Obviously you just jumped in and added a bunch of other words, but are there any specific words kind of in your journey that you think have been helpful in finding intersectional environmentalism or that have shaped your work?

Rebecca: Yeah, I think ecofeminism is definitely one, or more recently I've been learning about eco-womanism, which is specifically about black women and black feminist theory applied to environmentalism. I remember I learned about ecofeminism in Orange County, so I wasn't really in a super diverse setting. And I just thought like the concept of this is really cool, but what does this look like when diverse in nature and not transphobic and all those sorts of things.

So I think ecofeminism, it's interesting and it's what my next project is going to be about specifically. It's a word that I've kind of run away from just to get back to in some ways. Because at first I just was like, okay, there's two types of ecofeminism, cultural ecofeminism and radical ecofeminism. And radical ecofeminism is all about destroying the patriarchy and I'm with it. And cultural ecofeminism, there are parts of it that I think are beautiful, but in some regards it talks about biology and leaning into gender stereotypes and embracing them, about women being like chaotic nurturers. And I'm like, okay, maybe I'll take 30% of this, but just was really like, I'm not liking the terf-ness of this all and like trans exclusiveness or all those sorts of things. So that's a word that I've grappled with. But even on Wikipedia, like someone made a Wikipedia page for me and it says like, Leah Thomas, ecofeminist. So I'm like, I can't run from it. This is what I'm putting down. So I think that's been a really important role in my journey.

And then also like dismantling because even now, I'm like, what does that entail? Like yeah, I do want to dismantle systems, but I would say it so much without completely wrapping my head around everything that it would take. And even with the current state of what's going on in the United States, I'm like, okay, how can we dismantle things? How can this actually become real to rebuild new systems?

So that, and then lastly, radical imagination, which I'm not sure if that's on Climate Words yet, but it's one of my absolute favorites.

Rebecca: Yeah, what is radical imagination to you? From your perspective?

Leah: Yeah, radical imagination is like, in addition to thinking about dismantling systems of oppression, thinking about how we can rebuild new systems that are what we want. That's what radical imagination is. It's like a thought exercise to think about, what could the future be that works for us? That's a little bit more about what that is.

Rebecca: Yeah. A lot of the work that your organization, Intersectional Environmentalist, is doing is kind of, you know, trying to uplift those other voices and really support people that are currently doing that work of radical imagination. So I'm wondering if you could share a little bit about how you formed and why you formed this organization and what the work has been. And I know recently you have gone through an evolution. So could you just kind of share about the journey that your organization has taken and its role in the climate movement?

Leah: Yeah. So I left Patagonia at the end of the summer of 2020, which was a very hard decision to come back or go out on my own and be unemployed and try to figure out how to… Its funny, as a content creator, I was like, okay, maybe if I do this eco skincare ad, we can pay the team at Intersectional Environmentalist. Just trying to figure out how to lead a team, it was very difficult. But we started the org because people were asking me a lot of questions. They're like, what is intersectional environmentalism? And I never in a million years would think that millions of people online would be interested in that terminology. So I wanted to make sure very early that there is a distinction between me as an individual and then the concept of intersectional environmentalism, which is formed by the thoughts of like so many other people.

So initially it just started as a separate Instagram page and we were trying to, me and a collective of environmentalists, work with artists and also musicians at the time to create really visually appealing assets that talked about different intersections with environmental justice. So infrastructure, fashion, all those sorts of things. And we launched our first website and we had topic pages and cultural identity pages. There was one for like Black American identity, all of these other identity groups where people could go to the pages and learn about environmentalism and that group of people. And then we also had our topic pages so they could learn about different topics. So that's how we started just really trying to get free resources out to people.

And that slowly started to transform into doing some consulting behind the scenes. We designed a program three months after starting because we had so much inbound from organizations that are like, can we get certified in this? And again, I really wanted to compensate and pay my team. So we're like, let's just put together something called the accountability program. So we piloted a six month consulting program. And since then, we have tried to kind of go beyond the ideas of the original co-founders and bring on additional people. We’re a legit 501(c)(3) nonprofit.

And now we want to really reposition ourselves as being movement connectors and using our platform to connect people to grassroots environmental justice organizations that embody intersectional environmentalism. And then also continue to build resources like curriculums and those sorts of things.

Rebecca: Yeah, I particularly appreciate that. I work for a really small immigration nonprofit. And I think sometimes it feels like there are huge organizations in the world. And when an organization like yours with a large following starts to really channel that energy into really small orgs, it feels like there's a lot of energy behind all of us and we're all working in solidarity towards something bigger. So that's really powerful.

I'm also wondering, since 2020 and all of the new changes and since Intersectional Environmentalist was born, there's been a lot of policy changes in a somewhat positive direction. For example, the Inflation Reduction Act includes subsidies for native communities specifically, and the Biden administration created the first ever White House Environmental Justice Advisory Council. And so I'm wondering how you perceived this policy and advocacy landscape changing with respect to environmental justice? And are these wins? Are they not wins? And how do we continue to push this administration and the government further in terms of environmental policy?

Leah: Yeah, they're definitely wins, but they're like shrouded in so many other losses that I think it's hard to celebrate. But I want to remind people of that, that all of this work is paying off and they’re seeing what we're doing on social media, the federal government. So I think that's really important for people who are like, social media doesn't matter. But I remember after about six months or so after IE started and Biden came into the administration, we received an email from the White House that was like, can we do an IG live with you about climate justice? And initially we're really hopeful, like, okay, they're seeing what we're talking about. And I remember the White House and Gina McCarthy, they released a video titled Intersectional Approaches to Climate. And it was like, they're seeing us, they're hearing the youth. They're understanding what's going on. So I wanna tell people to continue using their platforms, however big or small, to raise awareness because that will transfer and translate into policy, hopefully.

So I think in large part, having the first Environmental Justice Council, having so much money for environmental justice for the first time in history, like billions with a B that's unheard of. People have been working on this since the 80s to make this a reality. I think we are in an environmental justice renaissance, but unfortunately, and not as optimistically, I feel like we're also experiencing a backlash to 2020 that is very, very hard. So we suddenly had a lot of talks about diversity and inclusion. And I think because of that, we started to see environmental justice policy reform. And then just as quick, it feels like we're getting books banned. We're seeing policies getting rolled back. We're seeing all of these things changing. We're seeing DEI being banned. So I think that is something that's definitely facing a lot of threats right now. So a lot of mixed emotions with that.

Rebecca: I've been challenged to celebrate the wins when you're looking at the broader context, particularly obviously given like the genocide that the U.S. government is supporting. And I think, I agree that continuing to fight and push and use the power that all of us have is the best we can do given the circumstances. So, thank you for sharing that.

Switching gears just a little bit now, I'm wondering if you could share a little bit about the process of writing your book. I really love the way that you incorporate a lot of other words and thoughts from other activists in the movement, as well as different pledges and discussion questions. And so I'm curious, how did the book take shape? When did you kind of see that this was what it was gonna look like? And yeah, how did it come to be?

Leah: Yeah, so I got really lucky. So years before this happened, I actually was pitching a project about using cannabis for mindfulness practices, and I stumbled across this really sweet literary agent named Laura Lee Mattingly at Present Perfect Lit. And she reviewed my proposal and was like, ‘hey, I really see a future for you and writing, keep perfecting this, keep growing your social media platform’, which is unfortunate that that plays a role right now for authors. And I just thought she was so kind to me.

So when all the madness was happening and intersectional environmentalism was going viral, my profile was growing. I remember I got an email from Google that people were searching this word a lot. And it almost made like the Google end of year video, which I think is so cool. They showed me a graph of like, of a sudden it was like hundreds of thousands of people who were like, what is this? And there wasn't much for them to find except for like one article I wrote for the Good Trade. And there was also another student that had talked about intersectional theory and environmentalism. So I really, maybe selfishly, was like, ‘yo, I know how the world is to black women.’ Like I really want to write a book. I want to be the first one to write this book because after this, I hope there's so many other books, different people talking about this topic. But I want to be the first. I don't want my voice to be silent. So I reached back out to Laura Lee and she was like, I'm down, let's figure it out.

And at the time I had so much angst and I don't know how to explain or recreate this feeling, but it was such a sense of responsibility because I wanted as many people as possible to feel seen in this project. So one, I knew I wanted to write an introductory textbook so I could have the bar be on the ground. I wanted people, if they're even remotely interested in environmentalism, to have some sort of rootedness in environmental justice and social justice, because my theory of change was that that could reshape the environmental movement if everyone started at that point, like where would they go from there? And I've seen it at colleges where I love when students are like, ‘yeah, I read your book first semester and like now I'm talking about decolonization’ and I'm like go off. I love it. So I really wanted to write the textbook that I wish I had as an intro to environmental science student and I also just wanted as many people as possible to feel seen and heard.

So the process is interesting. I got a lit agent. I went the traditional route where we created a book proposal. That's something that I take really seriously. I love design. So we designed it in the style of the book. So it's just this really big rainbow book proposal about what the project was about and two sample chapters. We pitched it. It got picked up by a publisher, which was just my biggest dream.

And then it came out. And it was a journey, trying to fight for the cover that I wanted, a very simple rainbow. When they were like, ‘we gotta make it look more textbook-y’. And I was like, no, this is my vision. I want it to be a coffee table read. I want it to spark conversation. I want students to feel excited when they're carrying this book. I also want it to have different meanings. I'm not queer, but I want people to be proud. I don't know. And assign whatever meaning they want. I just want people to feel seen with the way that it's designed. And that was just my dream for like a bunch of kids to be walking around a college campus with like a rainbow textbook because I felt like it would have different meanings that would make different people feel seen and happy. So yeah, that's a little bit about the process of how the book came together.

Rebecca: Yeah. And I think it's awesome that your dream has definitely been realized. There are tons of college kids walking around with that book, like literally everyone at UCLA, at least. So have you felt that energy?

Leah: Yeah, I know this won't last forever, because I'm 29. And maybe I'll keep pretending to be a Gen Z-er. But when I came to UCLA, I think the most special thing is when students are getting their book signed. And they said it, they were trying to be sweet. They're like, ‘oh, I didn't know you were young or cool.’ And I was like, what?

Rebecca: Yeah, environmentalism can be cool.

Leah: I probably have like a 10 year window to keep doing that without them being like, okay. Okay, now you're a professor. So I thought that was such a sweet moment. And then the way that the students were talking to me, it felt like such a privilege that I know a lot of other authors don't get to experience when they might have a book. So it's really just been so sweet and a couple more colleges have picked the book up.

I'm excited, a lot of books come out and then they kind of go away. Usually books sell the most in the first year and the first couple of months and then kind of go away. But to have it actually being used as a textbook is so wild and it still feels really vulnerable when people tell me they've read it. I don't know when it's going to click, if ever, but sometimes I'm like, ‘where did you find it? Like, where did you get it?’ And they're like, ‘at Barnes and Noble’, or their local indie. But it still feels so weird and surreal and I hope it continues to feel like this because it's so fun.

Rebecca: Yeah. And you shared earlier, but I think you're also working on a new book. Has anything changed in your writing and creative process or what have you learned having now kind of had your first big book?

Leah: There's a lot of imposter syndrome, I would say. Because the first time I felt survival mode, like I was unemployed. I had a team relying on me and I'm just trying to get this thing out. And I felt like I had something to say. And then this time I was like, ‘okay, I said the thing or people interested in more things.’ Having this journey of like, who am I outside of Intersectional Environmentalist as an organization? Can I write something that's not an introductory textbook? So I had another proposal that got scrapped. I kept pushing back all my deadlines and had a lot of imposter syndrome with this one. I had the tentative title. I've had it for the last two years and I've known what I've wanted it to be about and I haven't really wavered. But yeah, it's a hard process. So I'm still in the proposal stage where I submit my proposal to Laura Lee and then she's going to go through it and edit it and see if she likes it. But it feels good. I feel really proud. It was gonna be illustrated at one point and then my publisher was like, ‘okay, you can do this later. Please write a heavy, dense book on this topic.’ So I'm excited, but I do wanna let people know even if you have a book that's moderately successful, the publishing industry is a big, scary place and it's easy to get imposter syndrome.

Rebecca: Totally. And to push through that or know that your writing is important and people do want to read it. Now I'm also curious, because I know you've spoken a bit about the Midwest, but we're really interested in natural and urban spaces and just the places that inspire people's work. And I'm curious what are some spaces that really resonate with you and inspire your work or your creativity? And could you describe them for our listeners?

Leah: Yeah, so I think one is honestly my home in Silver Lake, my little apartment. It's the first time I've lived alone and have completely decorated a space by myself. And I spend a lot of time here. It really feels like a little oasis. It's got big windows and it's built on top of a garage, so it's not necessarily the most tranquil at all times, but it's mine and it's the first time where I really need somewhere to come back to, that keeps me really rooted.

Other outdoor spaces, I really enjoy being hot at night. That's something that you don't get in California that you get in the Midwest and other places. So I think being back in the Midwest at my grandmother's house, I share a lot about her on social media, but she's kind of this hippie with a big green lush backyard with a little waterfall in the middle of the city. So it feels really out of place. She's in a super urban environment, but has this green oasis, which I think makes it even better. She stocked turtles in the pond and there's koi fish and all those sorts of things. So that's another place where I really feel at home.

And then just when I'm amongst trees, places like Big Sur are really magical in California.

Rebecca: So our listeners are climate curious, learning how they can be more precise and impactful with language in their fields. And so I'm wondering if you just have any advice in general about the power of words and language in the climate movement?

Leah: I would say words can really help people feel seen and heard and validated, and their experiences, which is why I think they're so beautiful. So if there's a word that you don't know exists, create it, even if it's just you using it or looking for it, because I feel like that's really fun. I'm excited for people to go through Climate Words and see what they can find.

But yeah, there's so much comfort in finding something, it's almost like when you're on Netflix and you find a show and you're like, ‘oh, this really resonates with my humor. It gets me.’ It's really the same with words. And I think that's the beauty of language.

Rebecca: Yeah, it's really helpful in describing our experience. When you get something that really scratches that itch. I didn't know I needed it until I found it. Or yeah, a definition that's particularly resonant.

And so just to close then, we've obviously spent a lot of time talking about words and your book and intersectional environmentalism. And so something that we like to ask everyone at the end of these interviews is, what is one climate word that you've been thinking about recently that you'd like to close with? It doesn't necessarily have to be related to the climate, but I think most things are. So is there anything that is coming to mind as particularly important or just something that has been kind of resonating with you lately?

Leah: I think climate reparations, that's something I'd like to be able to define a little bit better, but I think it's such an interesting concept of assigning some sort of monetary value to the loss that people will experience because of the climate crisis. And it's also something that gives me hope because it feels like restorative justice. Like if certain populations are going to be overburdened by the climate crisis, I think they should be first in line to receive certain benefits and assistance and help. So that's a word that I've been trying to noodle on a little bit more.

Rebecca: In UN contexts, a lot of people refer to it as loss and damages as well, like a fund. But there's been movement on that recently, which is nice to see. So thank you for sharing. And thank you so much for spending time with me this morning. It's been really great to chat with you and hear about all the words that are important to you.

Leah: Thank you so much. Thank you Climate Words and everybody listening.